E19 Mark Campbell - Winning is Temporary

Greg Scott: Hello and welcome to 315 Voices. I'm your host, Greg Scott. You know, 1 Peter 315 reminds us to always be prepared to give an account when someone asks for the reason for the hope that's in us. And today's guest is Mark Campbell. Mark's accolades from his coaching career in women's college basketball are many: 800 wins, 10 Final Fours in both Division II and NAA, and five national championships. He's also been inducted into both the NAIA Hall of Fame and the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame. But Mark wouldn't want you to know any of that if it means you didn't hear about his relationship with Christ. He now serves as Union University's Athletic Director, and he's pouring into coaches and programs to raise young men and women into a life that's constantly seeking God's face and making disciples. Today's conversation with Mark was such a challenge to my own faith walk. And I know that hearing how Mark is always striving to know God deeper and walk with him closer is going to push you as well. I'm so glad that you've joined the podcast today to hear our conversation with Mark Campbell. Welcome to the podcast, Mark. Glad you got the chance to join us today. Looking forward to it.

Mark: Yeah, I appreciate you doing this and it's always really good to talk about things and be reminded of just the Lord's you know, all his patience and all the different blessings along the way when you rethink and go through kinda what he's done in your heart. So I appreciate you doing this and having a podcast where it really that that would point out all those things. So appreciate you having me on.

Greg Scott: Well, the folks in West Tennessee that follow our podcast will be familiar with you, Mark. But talk a little bit for a second about kind of growing up, what were some influences, what led to your faith story? where do you where do you see that in your background of how God called you to himself growing up?

Mark: you know, with my with my boys, I have two sons, one that's twenty four, another one's seventeen. When they turn twelve, thirteen years old, we kinda take a man trip. And so actually, you know, taking my both of them back to my home I grew up in, my five, you know, most important people in my life influentially, and then had them meet with them and so I've thought about that a lot. you know, I I'm I believe that God brings people to himself. he he initiates that and my my family my mom was just you know I I w grew up with my mom every morning when I woke up she was on the couch reading her Bible. She'd have a certain meal for us in the mornings and we'd go through Bible verses before we go to school. I would see her in a window praying for us as we'd leave the driveway with my dad. She just was a demonstration of of God's spirit working in somebody. And so I I mean I got to see that growing up. we were always involved with church, much to my disappointment on Wednesday afternoons when she pulled me out of the yard to to get me to go to eat bad spaghetti at Brentwood Baptist Church in Nashville. but I but I also saw Great Marriage. And so there were all these fruits I didn't know where the roots to all that stuff was at the time. but when you see great marriage and people loving each other sacrificially, enjoying each other, then be being one, both in the way they disciplined us and talked to us and and then to be able to have rhythms of our life that match up with, you know, faith. And how that kind of spreads out over everything that we did. It doesn't mean it was a perfect home. but there was no arguments. obviously it didn't have divorce in my home. We had a group of families at church that we did stuff with. I mean, that I called aunts and uncles. There were seven families. we grew up in the same church. and then you know, as I was probably in sixth grade, I met a pastor, his name was Don Finto. he was the pastor of Bellevue church in at Belmont Church, sorry, in Nashville on sixteenth Avenue. And he was a former Church of Christ pastor that believed that the spirit was a lot more active than at that point in time where the Church of Christ was in Nashville. And decided that he was I mean he's a professor at Lipscomb, got fired because he started teaching about the spirit in his classes and they They started a church and he it was a charismatic church and he just invested in me. I remember being on a a youth retreat in eighth grade and him sleeping in a sleeping bag with me and my best friend at that time, John Pierce, who I played with at Lipscomb. And and he called us both over and he said, I just want you to know that God's gonna use basketball in both of your lives to proclaim the name of Jesus.

Greg Scott: Well.

Mark: And so I just remember these these blessings that people spoke over, especially my mom and and Don Fento. And then I I just had a great relationship with my dad hunting. wasn't necessarily a spiritual relationship, even though my dad taught Sunday school and things like that, but he invested time with me. So I just had no area in my life to point to where I wasn't loved and cared for and seen and and held accountable. I mean my dad was very good at being bold and having high demand and keeping accountable and yet being soft hearted and having a short memory. Like he he would get over things really quickly and we'd sit down for dinner and everything would be fine. And so some things that have really served me well in coaching from both of them. but I think there was just a consistency growing up in our rhythms of our life that matched this love and consistency in our home. through marriage and my mom's faithfulness to the Lord, yeah, just r still sustain me to this day and both of my parents are no longer here. So

Greg Scott: recognizable name of John Pierce in Nashville basketball talent at Lipscomb. And you and he both played basketball at Lipscomb. So that leads into a little bit as you talk about people who influenced your life, Pastor Don, parents, no doubt others, what a blessing that your sons hopefully recognize. Like you're be you're able to look back and recognize blessings that you had in those characters. But for your sons to be introduced to those people and to get a background into your faith and probably didn't and may not still truly grasp the blessing that that was for them, talk a little bit now about you you turned that into a basketball college career at Lipscomb at the time an NAI school, now they're division one known, but an NAI school and a powerhouse and under the legendary Don Meyer.

Mark: I went to started going to Franklin Road Academy in sixth grade. We were ended up being in the same grade as John and a couple other of my friends that are still friends this day. so we played basketball all through middle school, all through high school together. And I'm pretty sure that Lipscomb signed me so that they could so they so they could get John and I'm okay with that. And 'cause he's one of the most humble people I've ever been around. And so, I d I I chose to go to Lipscomb 'cause I wanted to coach. I felt like since I was nine or ten years old that that's what I I wanted to do. You know, I I have a hard time separating, you know, the word calling. You know, I think everybody talks about passions all the time. And I'm not sure that we should all follow our passions, that would be very dangerous. but I think we stepped in we step into giftings and to circumstances in which it's clear that God is in control at that point in time. I just love basketball. I slept with my basketball. when the three point line, I think it was maybe an eighty six. I remember Rudy Kalis on Channel Four NBC in Nashville, he announced it. My dad and I it was a dark already. We went outside and we did the line for the three point line and my dad said, This is your path to college. You're not gonna be that tall and and you're not gonna be super athletic but you can shoot it. And so I knew that I I loved shooting threes and I wanted to coach and at that point in time there was no better place to go than Lipscomb. and just learning a A simple way to play basketball. I still think the way we played lips film and the way that, you know, we played here at Union for of the twenty-seven years, twenty-four of them, last three years we kind of changed how we played, is the simplest and most effective way to play basketball when you have a really good postplayer that has to be guarded by two before they even catch the ball. It just makes every single person on the floor better. And we try to play that way and and so His his system, but more his attention to detail and keeping us accountable to those details to the point where we actually saw the details. I think most of my frustration in today's world is the things people don't see that seem just like obvious things, and I don't say that arrogantly, I just say it's my biggest frustration. And I would say that God needs to sanctify me in that frustration. But Coach Meyer was unbelievable about seeing details and you understand the power of your executions in the details and the process of it. And if you take care of the process, there'll be fruit that comes from it. I think this is biblical in every single way. That we just talked before this about obedience. If we will look at God's law and we will obey it, that means our roots are attached to something that's gonna be lasting. And the fruit from it, even though times may be hard, the fruit's coming. It's guaranteed. And so, that's much how Coach Meyer he didn't talk about it in a spiritual way, but I just see God's order of things and and how he created things to be. And most people want great marriage, most people wanna win basketball games, most people want to make money, all those things. I think there's some natural things that we can do. Not that making money is a a a very important thing, but I think There's natural fundamentals that if our roots are attached to the right things, then the fruit of that we don't have to worry about and we can trust the Lord with. And so that's the way he made me see basketball. He he I I remember after every year I kept all my notebooks, my senior year, I wrote down every single quote Meyer had, and he had some crazy ones. And I'd think about in practice and then I'd go I'd sit in the team room afterwards and make ask my teammates, What did he say here? 'Cause this was so I think I had Forty three different quotes from him at the end of that year, and so much so that after my notebook he asked for me to get copies of that to him for him. but but he was a unique man. I I didn't I didn't know him real well. I wanted to please him and it was a time when actually he didn't have to have great relationship with me for me to give my best effort. Nowadays the relationship is so so important for coaches to be effective. But I mean each year at the start of each season I'll I'll call his wife or text his wife and say, Hey, thanks. yeah, my life is so much better because of Coach Meyer.

Greg Scott: And you know, Don Meyer's not a basketball legend. He's a leadership, you know,

Mark: Yeah, yeah.

Greg Scott: legend. And and it transcends across sport lines and into leadership and into boardrooms. one of our previous guests at the end of this, one of the challenges that I'll put in front of you is to give me three books that impacted your life. And one of our guests said his playbook is actually something that impacted my life. And I lost my copy of it and had to contact Miss Joyce to see if there was another copy somewhere and she got me one and now there's nobody that's ever gonna be allowed to borrow this. Like it just the the leadership

Mark: Yeah.

Greg Scott: depth and this is a baseball guy, but it's and it you know, you say he didn't really have to build relationships, yet it feels like the people that I talked to that knew him and and you knew him because you played for him and you know, started your coaching career on the same campus that he was coaching But But there was a relationship there that was important to you, even if it wasn't intentional on his part, just by the way

Mark: Yeah, I think

Greg Scott: he led.

Mark: Right. I I think that when I think of leadership, I think of people who create environments. Like, you know, there's a lot of different people that lead a lot of different ways and we could come up with a definition. but everybody's creating an environment, whether they like it or not. Everybody's coaching whether they like it or not. but those people that know how to create environments that are team environments were actually

Greg Scott: Speak.

Mark: They they they take their self out of the equation and enter into the group and really choose the group. that's a rare quality and it's getting harder because with the NIL stuff you're you're asking people to think about themselves only and then once they get there to think about everybody, which is impossible to do. And if every man entered into marriage that way, they would all fail. And so we're just teaching

Greg Scott: And what is

Mark: people the wrong thing.

Greg Scott: Outside of that locker room, I read something that you maybe have quoted in in an interview one time that outside of just the basketball experience at Lipscomb, being on that campus as a college student, God really led you to dig deeper into why you believe what you believe, which I think a lot of us do, even if we're not cognizant enough to articulate that. We wanna know, okay, I get it and I But but why and how did I get here? So talk about that process just for a moment and how that how that kind of shaped you going forward.

Mark: Yeah, yeah, I'll say on the front end, like, you know, I'm just overwhelmed with God's the sanctification that's happened since those time periods at Lipscomune 'cause there's several parts of my life that weren't surrendered to the Lord. I will say this that the one th I I grew up Baptist. I went to Brentwood Baptist Church. in Nashville and Brentwood and so and so to go to a church of Christ school where there were some doctrinal differences that I had to figure out and I I had to figure them out early. Like when we got into the freshman Bible class it was I mean baptism and instrumental music, man. It was like I was what? I I had no idea what was going on. And I I mean I even had tell me people tell me I was not going to heaven that first semester. And but Don Finto, my pastor, lived right there on Granny White. I'm talking about less like three or four blocks away from the university. and I had tons of questions. it was a time where my heart wasn't totally turned. The Lord did not have my heart in all the ways. but I knew what I believed and and I believed it. But it was mostly based on our rhythms at home. And I think the the biggest thing for me is I didn't know scripture. And anybody I would have discussion with, at Lipscomb, they backed it up with scripture or they they thought they were backing it up with scripture. And so it just challenged me. And I'm not sure I really grabbed hold of that until I came to Union and I was by myself. My parents dropped me off here. I came here with Ralph Turner, who was my assistant coach in college, who got the men's coach here j coaching job here. And I remember I was just by myself. I mean, I all I had was basketball and the Lord, and then a phone call away from my mom about these things. but it was the start.

Greg Scott: I think it's important for any believer to be able to do some intrinsic investigation of and not I don't need my parent my parents' faith will not grow my faith. My friend's faith will not grow my faith. There i there does come a time where you have to do that. You have to sit and say, Why am I doing this? Why do I say these things? Why do I have these answers? You talked about union. you had first off, you had some coaches that I'm familiar with all around you, between Don Meyer and Ralph Turner and Mike Roller is a friend of mine.

Mark: That's right.

Greg Scott: great guy. And those are all some great basketball influences. But you you go to Union University and I'm a Lambuth guy and we're talking anyway, and you're there with Coach Turner, but then Union University basketball, for those of you that are just outside of West Tennessee or outside the conversation, Union University before Mark Campbell was a national power in the N N AI landscape. with national tournament appearances, a national championship, David Blackstock was a known you take that position as your first ever head coaching job. You're the head women's coach at a NAI national known as you look back How was that process unfold for you? Because I gotta think you were a men's basketball player, you were under a men's program, you came with Ralph to coach men. How did that unpack that you yeah, I'm gonna say yes to this women's job. Was it temporary in your head of I'm gonna do this for a little bit and do great at it and move on, or I'm just gonna see what the Lord has for me here?

Mark: Yeah, I would say that This just this time period in my life when this transition happened from Lipscomb to Union was the first time I can look back as an adult and say, Okay, this is when God started speaking and me listening to him and actually hearing, like hearing what he has to say. And so I had to I mean I'll I'll just back up a little bit is Coach Meyer told me to write every single coach that I could possibly write and asked to be a GA, a volunteer assistant. So I sent out a ton. I even asked him for autographed pictures. I probably have 30 autographed photos of the best coaches that have ever coached. I mean, from John Wooden to Knight to like all these people, I still have them all. And so I still have the letters from Krzyzewski back and all this stuff. So He had worked out for me to be work in the Duke basketball office. Now I couldn't, I'm not on the staff, I couldn't teach in practice, but I could go to practice every day. But I'd be working in the basketball office. He told me that one of the things I would be doing would be driving Krzyzewski maybe to clinics in North Carolina. Well, this was like, I mean, this was like this would be awesome. the difference was that getting a graduate degree at NC State, because I could not get into Duke, no way. was gonna be about sixteen thousand dollars a year that my dad was willing to pay at the time. And if you think back to that in the nineties, that's a lot

Greg Scott: Yeah. Yeah.

Mark: of money. and then Coach got this Coach Turner got this job. And so I'm very, very grateful. Coach Turner took a chance. He and I did not have a great relationship when he was my assistant coach. And and so we kind of work I came to him and my dad just said, Listen, he's got this job. You're gonna be able to teach on the floor pretty close to home. You should still be able to see us a lot. it might be an opportunity for you to just do more. And so I just went to Coach Turner's office. I said, Hey, I I would like to go with you if that's something you're interested in. And he said, Why don't you drive up with me this weekend? So I think it was on a Friday afternoon. And we drove up, we talked about all the different things between us relationally. he said, if you want to come, I want you to come. And dad was gonna pay that. I think it went to six thousand dollars. By the time we started the semester, Coach Turner was gonna take take care of it and it was free. but I got to be on the floor. I got to coach the guys that I was playing against the previous year in the same league. coach had put me in charge of defense and man, I remember that first day how nervous I was. but

Greg Scott: Absolutely.

Mark: he gave me so many opportunities to do practice plans and work through things and and be in charge of defense and without him allowing those things, we wouldn't be having this conversation today. Coach Turner's the boat the best in game coach that I've ever been around. He made adjustments, he was willing to do things he'd never practiced because he felt like it would work. he just had a lot of courage as a coach. And so I learned a lot during those five years. And then when all that happened with Lisa with Lisa Hutchins, who was a friend of mine at the time. And and then to be able to step in the girls' job. I I'd I remember calling Coach Meyer, I always loved coaching girls during the summer because we had to work all six weeks of boarding camp at Lipscomb. Mandatory. Four of those weeks were guys and two of those weeks were girls and I hated the four weeks of guys and I loved the two weeks of girls. I I felt like that we had their hearts. Like they were all in. Like We had their I could see it in their eyes that we had them. and then they had fun after being held accountable really easily, I I loved the fact that we could it could be really hard, be disciplined, be coached, held accountable, and then we could laugh at a meal so when when this happened and they asked me if I was interested, I mean West Tennessee girls high school basketball starts at five thirty.

Greg Scott: Yeah.

Mark: I was able to put my kids to bed most nights after those games. So I'd go recruiting at that point in time, West Tennessee women's basketball high school was unbelievable.

Greg Scott: Yep.

Mark: Like the best coaches in the country coaching high school basketball in programs where there was high demand. and so it was a really easy transition from Hey, we've got a program that's been here for so and so years. Peggy Birmingham was before Coach Blackstock. Every program has been successful. There hasn't been bad years at Union. And the reason a lot of it was not only because the coaching, but we had great high school coaches feeding into because the environment they had in high school matched the environment expectations we had here. I didn't have to teach it. And so When you bring in somebody from Gleason or Bradford from Randy Fraser and and David Russell, if you bring in kids from them, the expectation actually, I'm gonna have trouble living up to their ability to coach. And so much of the fruit of us early on was me depending upon the accountability from these best coaches in the country in high school. And when I say that, best coaches in the country. Because if you can coach, you can coach, it doesn't matter what. I felt very clearly I just gotten married ma after my fourth year being with Coach Turner. you know, one thing about being married as an assistant, you really don't have yeah, I mean, it's not your life. You can be told to go here and there and you had to so I had the blessing of having one year of marriage as an assistant. And then have had the last twenty-seven being the head coach and being able to prioritize the things that are most important to me.

Greg Scott: Yeah. Set your own schedule.

Mark: Yeah, that's right. And so it's a gift. When the Lord is very clear, which there's been five or six times in my life that's been true. I think you just step into it and you trust him. And and there's good fruit that comes from it, even if it's hard.

Greg Scott: where do you recognize now looking back twenty seven years ago at the gifts that are unique to Mark Campbell and how they played out not just as a coach but how the cultivation of that now athletic director at Union University, you see those as athletic director, as head coach, as dad as husband, as friend, as those gifts that maybe others have as well, obviously, but they're you know that are unique to you.

Mark: And my dad was an unbelievable leader. He was bold and yet he was light, forgave quickly, admitted fault quickly, and like the combination of watching parents deal with you that way is really how I've dealt with my players. And it's I don't know if it's a quality as much as the the opportunity we have to pass things on to our children. That are godly things in the Bible character wise. that there's some traits in the Bible that we have the ability to teach, and we can teach those mostly through the way we live, not what we say. and yet it needs to be both. And so I have a love for relationships and I have a love for environments. and basketball was a conduit. athlete director as a conduit to be able to do those things. You know, I d I don't really know where to point to with any of those things. I I love I've loved what I've done. I've never felt like it's work. even going into this year without coaching, I know I'm still in the same office right here. I'm still working with the same people. And the difference is that I'm gonna actually be home for dinner, which I'm looking forward to. And I'm not gonna be traveling from Wednesday to Saturday, during basketball season. I'm gonna have Thanksgiving off for a week. I'm gonna have Christmas this year, three weeks off, Greg. fall break, an extra day. But I I don't say I'm to be lazy, I'm saying I get to invest in

Greg Scott: That's right.

Mark: my still seventeen year old, my sixteen year old, my wife of twenty eight years, and then try to figure out how to build an ab create an environment in the athletic department where we leverage athletics and we don't let at athletics leverage us.

Greg Scott: We get a lot of coaches to say that they tune into the podcast and pick up nuggets. I became a student of other coaches early on that I I recognized there's a lot of people out there a lot smarter than me. And not just because they've been doing it longer, but sometimes. And so pick up this, pick up that and the interesting take you just gave of you haven't talked about philosophy yet other than You build it around a strong post player. That's as close as we got to talking basketball philosophy. It's relational and I'll tell you, as later on in my coaching, when I was able to come back around for a second go a few years ago, something that I did much better than the first time around was on it when it was on the coaching staff, or it was on a lack of preparation or a lack of kind of recognizing what we needed at the time. And it blossomed the relationships with the players when that happened. Now it's not me

Mark: Yeah.

Greg Scott: sitting around taking I'm not going to take the blame every time something doesn't go right. We're going to place

Mark: Yeah, that's right.

Greg Scott: we're going to place responsibility and accountability where it belongs. And sometimes it's squarely on me. And and now it's up to me to not only do that in front of you but model corrective action. We don't come back to this same mistake. if there's any coaches tuning into this one, if they can write down there there may be 40 Don Meyer quotes but but the one I think to pick up from you right there, Mark, was owning the mistakes that I make in front of my players, being accountable and vulnerable to because it just builds

Mark: Yeah.

Greg Scott: that relationship exponentially.

Mark: Yeah, I think the you know the the most powerful thing we have as people is authenticity. Like you so I don't know about you, when I was young I I had these I l I love certain coaches and I love certain things they do in their programs. So I would come up with my core covenants, right? And I w I would love so and so's core covenants. And I would have them down in our locker room, but but they weren't me. Like that isn't natural things that come out of me. And so About, I guess, 15 years in, I think the Lord kind of said, Hey, look at the things that I've already done in you. Those should be your core covenants because those will overflow from your life. And your players are knowing you're lying on those core covenants because you're not a couple of these things yet. Being authentic means admitting admitting fault, you know. You know, I don't know. I mean, there's been many times over a twenty seven year period of time I said things out of anger. And I don't think I should discipline my kids out of anger. And I don't think I should raise my voice out of anger to my players. It doesn't mean I don't raise my voice. It just means I'm not gonna do it out of anger. and then when I do it out of anger, I wanna say, Hey, I was wrong and how I did that. My heart was not good. If the environment doesn't have trust, there is no environment. And I think what you just said, admitting fall, all it does is elevate trust, which is ultimately to me, it's the biggest discipline for me. Like you don't have my trust should be the worst thing that the players have to endure the whole year. Because if that happens, then their hearts, they want their hearts aligned with me. I don't want their behavior and without their hearts. I want their hearts to be aligned. And so but what you just said about admitting fault and all that stuff your second time, that I believe that's the key to every single relationship and taking s taking as much as you can and sometimes you take more than you actually to get it right.

Greg Scott: you you're you're implying it but saying it outright it just bleeds over into every relationship we have. A coach, player, a husband, wife, a b a boss

Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.

Greg Scott: and an employee, a coworker, and it's certainly into my parenting of man, if I lay it out there in front of you, then you then you know you can trust me. the adverse to that is if you can't trust me, we really can't do much else. I can't accomplish anything else that I wanna do just because I said so. Those days are long gone. You mentioned that earlier. Coaching days of thirty five years ago of the because I said so days, that

Mark: That's right.

Greg Scott: doesn't reach today's player. And that's not a negative on today's player. That's just where we are in the environment and I think both sides should be that way.

Mark: Yeah. And I would say this and and maybe I don't know if you agree with it, it makes me be more Christ like. Man, it just makes me be more Christ like. I mean, like And we might not win a war, but we're gonna be more Christ like.

Greg Scott: there's the recognizing that to be the person in the relationship that I want to be, I can't really do it without the assistance of the Holy Spirit leading me in that direction. take it down to the nuts and bolts in the in the gym or on the baseball field. Why can't I do this skill because I didn't work on it enough? My fundamentals don't allow me to do that at a high level. Well, why can I not build this relationship? Well it's because I didn't prepare myself to build that relationship through my walk with Christ.

Mark: Yeah, and I would say we have to be really good at training our souls because they're being trained and there's gonna be a pull through

Greg Scott: One way or another.

Mark: the world, yeah. And so I I would say the biggest distraction for me over the last twenty seven years has been basketball. my prayer has been in taking this step and making this transition for me, competition makes me act in a way that I don't act in any other place. And I'm tired of it, to be honest with you, of it distracting me from hearing his voice. And so, and that'll make me kind of emotional talking about it.

Greg Scott: The Great Commission calls us as believers to take the gospel to the ends of the earth, and what you wear can be a big part of that. So if you're looking for performance material that tells others your faith story, look no further than to exclaim Jesus dot com. This trademark exclamation point cross combined with comfortable hats and tops like the hat I have on today, allows you to put your faith out front and not compromise style or comfort. Visit exclaim Jesus dot com today and see the latest colors and styles that Nash has put together. And then use our podcast name as a discount code to save thirty percent off today's order. Just enter three one five voices three zero when you check out. So go today to exclaim Jesus dot com. That's exclaimes dot com to help you exclaim the name of Jesus.

Mark: I'm not saying that sports, I mean obviously I'm an athletic director. I'm not saying sports are or sin or anything like that, I I would like every one of my coaches to win a national championship and be a part of witnessing God changing a heart because of the environment that He has created through you on a team and to watch someone get baptized, to watch them come to faith so that they can compare the feelings. Because the feeling of winning national championships rooted in nothing. That makes sense? Like the roots aren't attached to anything and it's momentary and gone, like the story of the woman at the well. Gonna have to come back for it to get that feeling. We all know that's what we do every year. Like, can we have that feeling again? And our players are just being taught the same thing. one of the things we teach in sports and and I've and I've done it with my kids so and so is that if you perform well, you get this type of feeling And so then they they try to perform well to get that feeling again. And I was trained that way growing up over and over and over again. And but it's just that's not where our emotions need to be attached to.

Greg Scott: boy, that's hard to convince a competitor to get to that get to that point of this was the best I had today because I was a great teammate. I played my role well. I gave a

Mark: Yeah.

Greg Scott: hundred percent of the physical effort that I had, even though the stat line or maybe even the result of the of the contest didn't go my direction, you're not gonna be able to convince me of that, coach.

Mark: Well, I think you and I, as coaches, we can convince it because our relationship with them doesn't change based on their performance. Like part of part of my idea of performing well is what other people would say. and so pretty cool to think about that we could have we can have an effect on how our players respond to adversity because they do not see adversity as bad performance. They see adversity as they handled playing bad wrongly. And so I I do

Greg Scott: Yeah.

Mark: think there's a way to look at that that's God honoring and will help you execute better. Because

Greg Scott: Well it's yeah, I was gonna say that's gonna be the byproduct is if I don't concentrate on the result then I concentrate on the process and and that's that's coach speak on one end, but there's so much truth in there that if my desire is to improve my part of the process and I have for your world eight to twelve that do that, for baseball I have fifteen to eighteen that do that, for football coaches out there that have forty that wanna do that, if you all going in the s in that direction, then all of a sudden the the the byproduct of that is a success result that I was after in the first place. But coach, the last little question on on basketball wise, I don't want to skip this. This is not going to be your favorite part, but I want people to hear this out loud. So in your career, overall record, you won eighty six percent of your games. You won your eight hundred by the way, the coolest thing on your whole stat line is that your last win was your eight hundredth win. You lose the next day and and call it a day. But the

Mark: Yeah, yeah.

Greg Scott: Ten consecutive final fours in the N AI before the transition to D two, four national titles, a fifth one in the NCCAA during that transitional period, another final four in N C double A Division two, all at the women's level. I can keep talking about some of these things. You've you're actually in the women's basketball hall of fame, which is an awesome honor, I know as the world looks at it. But the NAI and the women's basketball hall of fame, which happened a few years ago, but I set all that up to just say look back over twenty seven years of phenomenal on the court success and is there a team that sticks out or a memory that sticks out or two that you say through all of that, I'll never forget this season or this team and what's the reason they they stick out for you?

Mark: you know, I I'm not sure that one year sticks out. I think there's a couple of things. One is I I think our best team we ever had was our 09 team. you had, I mean, four people on that team that are up on the wall in our locker room. and we had somebody drafted the WNBA. in a from a four out one in perspective, just perfection. We had we were nine deep and all of were really good players and we lost one game that year because Kayla Hudson and Caitlin Dudley sang on the intercom on the bus before we got off the bus to play at Lee University the last game before Christmas. I remember that. and they're two of my favorite players. but I I think when we were undefeated in O eight and lost in the final four. I remember being outside the locker room, I was kinda down, leaning down, and and I felt like the Lord say you you're measuring success wrongly. Like yeah, yeah, you we gotta figure out a different measurement for what success was. I think that was you know, during a stretch when we were going to the final four every year and there was it was I mean, it was a fun time of year and I enjoyed it. I I felt the Lord's presence when we that time of year just because we had there was a lot of people to talk to about and be able to point to him. But a good friend of mine had said it's not good for you to win this much. I didn't know what he thought meant, but when we went D2, it got tougher. Recruiting got tougher. and it that first year, the Lord just sanctified me a ton. I was a little spoiled baby. it was really good for me to to be able to handle losing really well and what other people looked at as losing and what I did were different. And so that when I do read this story of the woman at the well, yeah, it makes sense. I mean it it all makes sense to me. it doesn't mean the pursuit can't be godly. It just means the pursuit can't be over the pursuit to love Jesus most. And I guess there's a I mean I'm thinking through some things, you know, I think I'll remember the three pointer that Lambuth hit in the final four when I went zone, when I shouldn't have gone zone. Like I remember

Greg Scott: Mm-hmm.

Mark: those things more than I do the good things. I I my favorite part of winning at the end of the year at any level, whether it's conference or anything else, is to sit back and just watch them enjoy it. and then to for them to be able to see winning as something that is transient. And it one thing about if if when you win a lot, they're gonna see pretty clearly that it doesn't last. And so I think the the harder part would be to not win and think it does satisfy than to win too much and realize it doesn't. And so

Greg Scott: You said it earlier, it's an endorphin that you just can't repeat over and over and over again.

Mark: That's right. It's dopamine, man. I mean, like every every bad decision in my life is made because of dopamine. man, what if the biggest dopamine hit we got is our relationship with Jesus? and because I have always experienced the Lord through my time in Scripture. I mean, I look forward to it every morning. and the Lord's really challenged me to spend time in silence, walking with him, not asking anything of him, just being with him. that's what I'm learning. And that's one of the things that if we're not careful being on the athletic side, it can distract you from that presence, which is gonna keep you from being effective in the way that Lord wants you to be within the season. Because some of these seasons are long. And in order for us to lead properly, we need to be In his presence as much as we possibly can as believers.

Greg Scott: talk about and and we do that on the podcast where we hear people at different seasons in their life and and you put coaching aside, I'll say for now, because we never know where the Lord's gonna lead

Mark: That's right.

Greg Scott: in the near or distant future, honestly you're leading leaning into it anyway, I I want before we completely wrap up to talk about you mentioned four children but two are adopted and so you know if you ever are in the adoption families and we are and you are then it it means so much to you to watch others do that. And so talk about that process. How did God call you and your wife into adoption briefly and then what did that look like? 'Cause they're both correct me, they're from India.

Mark: That's correct. Yeah, I think it's it was a process, I was we were both always open to whatever the Lord wanted. And you know, we'd I we had always thought we'd have two children and then we'd be done and but we never really asked permission. Pastor Randy Carter, who we were going to North Side Assembly at that point in time, a long time ago, he preached a sermon on permission. Like, do you have permission to have this opinion? Do you have permission to make this decision? And so it goes along with what's all over scripture. Have you inquired of the Lord? Have you asked him? Have you bent your ear to him? And so we start asking. And and we got pretty clear that hey, we don't we don't need to do anything to prevent, we're just having as many children as he'll give us. And he he didn't give us any more. And in the process of that we we heard some sermons and some people come in and speak from India about girls and the slave trade in that ten thirty, ten forty window. And we felt like our hearts are just pulled towards it. And so there was a guy named David Platt, who's a preacher, who who spoke on campus here About that time period, maybe eight, and he was gonna eat dinner at our house. And so he came over to our house and they had just adopted and we talked to him. My grandmother died later that week, and I had forgotten she was an orphan, and she's really the start of the faith in our family. that if we trace back, that's where it started. And my mom had already passed away, and so she gave us an inheritance that pretty much covered the whole adoption. And so we just said that night, I said to her, Hey, I really believe we need to look into this. And so it just over a course of a series of events, came to India and we were there to we wanted to adopt a girl and we had filled out the paperwork, all that stuff. And then they came to us and said, Hey, you're you're first in line for a boy or twelfth for a girl. And so I said, Okay, we'll we'll do boy. And it was a lot more complicated than what I'm explaining. But went over there and it was in the middle of my season in two thousand nine, ten. I mean it's the year we won National Championship. So I was gone for ten days, missed two games, got had to watch on Skype, if y'all remember Skype at the time. And

Greg Scott: Yeah.

Mark: so I was can only see one side of court, and it's a ten hour difference over there. but adoption has transformed our lives.

Greg Scott: Amen.

Mark: Yeah, yeah, it's just transformed it. it's such a picture of the gospel and you

Greg Scott: Mm-hmm.

Mark: know, there's no difference between picking up a child from an orphanage than picking up a child after it's been out of your wife's womb. There's just no difference whatsoever. And I can't explain that to anybody except anybody that's adopted. There's just no difference whatsoever. You don't

Greg Scott: That's right.

Mark: see any difference and you don't see color, you don't see anything like that. so just a it's adoption's been a joy and it's changed our other two older kids too. that would be one of the, you know, taking the union girls job, coming to union, taking the girls union job, and then marrying my wife, and then us adopting just all these things, like God's spirits and all of them. It was so clear. there was no choice at those times. It was just like bam, like Listen to my sheep, hear my voice, very fortunate that the Lord allowed me to hear.

Greg Scott: you you said exactly what I was gonna ask. I I found Mark when that happens, when I when I am when I am surrendered and obedient and I wish that I could say that that happens more than it doesn't happen, but in the times that I do, the thankfulness that he fills me with is indescribable because as I walk in his obedience, I receive what he had for me in the first place through that, and you just become so thankful.

Mark: Right. No, that's that's exactly right.

Greg Scott: Well, all of our guests, Mark, on three one five Voices, go through a very rigorous, challenging three one five challenge. the first part is pretty selfish for me because I love hearing books that other leaders and other people of faith that God has provided them that's really shaped them. So I'd like to hear the three most impactful books outside of scripture. That you would that you would list.

Mark: man, I'm gonna give you four. I'm gonna give you four. Practicing his presence.

Greg Scott: We we

Mark: I read that, started reading that in around two thousand, something like that, when I told you when I came to union I was a little lonely. And my mom told me, Hey, read this, start praying for the lockers in your locker room. A Shepherd's Look at Psalm twenty three in the last five years, that's my favorite. It's an unbelievable view of Psalm twenty three. And it's a shepherd that wrote it. So he breaks it down just like a shepherd would think and what it means. It's amazing, and there's some unbelievable leadership stuff in there, especially for now, with how sensitive our student athletes are. amazing, really. there's another book that how how to experience the Holy Spirit by A. W. Tojer. That's a little bitty booklet. It's probably thirty pages, forty pages long. I read a portion of it every day for the last six months. It's it's an amazing book. and man I'm gonna say the book that I just got done with, Lead with Prayer. those those those four books have really and I would say that because they're all out on my shelf right here. I keep it stocked so when people ask, I give them books all the time. those four books point me back to scripture. I I try not to read anything that's not gonna point me back to scripture. yeah, that's what I would say and I would I don't ever stop reading them, so

Greg Scott: and if you have a book and you have four or more probably that you keep going back to even if it's not to read the whole book it's to I want to I want to find that story in there again because it's encouraging or I need to be reminded of something then that makes it an impactful I think I think those are important. the one in the 315 challenge is if you got your phone out, who is the most famous recognizable name in your phone that would answer you or hit you back.

Mark: the most famous person. I right now the Olivia Miles. That is the point guard for the Minnesota Lynx is probably gonna be the MVP of the league as a rookie 'cause she was on my USA basketball team. So

Greg Scott: That's pretty cool. The five and the three one five challenge is probably the most difficult. If I gave you five minutes, if the Lord gifted you five minutes with anyone throughout history, five minutes won't be enough. But who would you choose to sit down with? someone between Adam and Eve and today, who would you choose to sit down with for five minutes?

Mark: I think outside of Jesus, I just got back from the Creation Museum and the Ark, so I think right now I'd like to sit down with Noah. H I would like to see how in the world those eight people built that arc. I mean there's so many characters obviously that I'd I'd want to hear from. you know, I I just got through reading the Kings. I w I would love to to be able to Josiah or Hezekiah or somebody like that in the middle of all that stuff.

Greg Scott: Well, Mark, we certainly appreciate your time. If others want to connect with you, other than coming to a volleyball or a basketball game on the campus of Union University, I don't think you have much of a social media presence. Maybe you do, or another way to connect with you.

Mark: Probably not. yeah, no, I would say just call me here. I mean if I can help in any way or work through some things that I've I've had to work through from a spiritual standpoint and coaching. yeah, it would be a joy to be able to talk with people as they kind of work through and navigate those things 'cause I don't think there's much out there to read on just How do I live out my faith faithfully, hold people accountable, and create an environment that's honoring to the Lord and yet we're really, really good at execution because of I mean like I think that would be yeah, it would be a joy of my life to be able to to walk with people through that and work through it.

Greg Scott: I just want you to know your time with just with me in this past several minutes has been encouraging and sharpening to me. I just I've enjoyed the heck out of it, man, and I and I appreciate you setting some time aside to do it.

Mark: Well, I appreciate you having me. like I said, it's always good. The Bible tells us all the time to remember. So be able to to remember just probably'll change my day today. So I appreciate you allowing me to do it and appreciate you doing something like this.

Greg Scott: And I hope you enjoyed our time with Mark today as much as I did. In a culture that pushes results and wins, it's a joy to hear how someone that's experienced a lot of those successes would count them all as lost alongside the value of his relationship with Jesus. I know that the coaches and athletes at Union University are going to continue to grow just from his heart and dedication to discipling others. Share the link to today's episode to all of your social media channels. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Or anywhere you get your podcast downloads, and then tell someone you know about your favorite three one five Voices guest in order to encourage and inspire them. And then join us again when someone else will be prepared to give the reason for the hope that's within them on the next episode of three one five Voices.