E13 Eric Boles - Leadership with Heart

Greg Scott: Hello and welcome to 315 Voices, I'm your host Greg Scott. 1 Peter 315 reminds us to always be prepared to give an account when someone asks for the reason for the hope that's in us. And today's guest is Eric Bowles, a former NFL wide receiver with the New York Jets. Today, Eric is a speaker, a leader, and a teaching pastor. But that very question he was asked of, who are you, years ago, is what God used to radically change him and shift him into the man he is today. You can find his videos everywhere, speaking life into believers, shifting the way leaders think about the people they lead, or just letting dads and husbands know that there is a better way. This conversation was so rich, I didn't want to leave out any of it. So I hope you're ready to be encouraged and challenged by the podcast today. Enjoy our conversation with Eric Bowles. Man, I hope you enjoyed our time today with Eric as much as I did. While he's become a great friend, it's mainly by knowing that his heart is to lead like never before while pointing other people to Jesus. I can't imagine that you didn't find several things to both encourage you and challenge you in your faith walk. So share the link out to today's episode on all of your social media platforms. Subscribe to our YouTube page or anywhere you get your podcast downloads. And then tell someone you know about your favorite 315 Voices guests in order to encourage and inspire them. And then join us again when someone else will be prepared to give the reason for the hope that's in them on the next episode of 315 Voices. Well, Eric Boles welcome to the podcast, brother. Appreciate you coming on today.

ERIC BOLES: Thank you, my man. Glad to be here.

Greg Scott: Eric and I connected a couple of years ago, wrote him ⁓ a little note because Eric, are now, and we'll get to this later on, but you now spend your life as a encourager. I don't know what your official title is, but an encourager and a connector. And you were at the NFHS national conference, which was in Boston. I thought enough of the things that you had to say. I try to kind of one of my challenges for myself that year was to. to encourage more people on my end, because I'm terrible at it naturally, Eric, I'm not like you. And so I just wrote you a note, and you and I connected over that. And ⁓ man, I've been so, I keep using the same word, but I've been so encouraged, inspired through your spirit and mine just connecting over that. really glad to have you today and glad for our listeners to hear about your story.

ERIC BOLES: Appreciate it, Greg. Let me say right off the bat, the note you sent me following that conference that we had there in Boston, it was a real encouragement to me because it wasn't just an encouraging word that you sent me, but you were thinking of me. You were like, how can I pray for you? How can I? It wasn't, and I don't get that a lot. I get a lot of, hey, I really appreciate these words. It's made a difference. I don't hear very often. How can I pray for you? How can I bring that? So I want you to know that ⁓ that was incredibly encouraging. And remember the event was a, it was all business. wasn't a Christian conference. It wasn't a men's conference. It was nothing like that. And so it really resonated.

Greg Scott: No, it wasn't. It was a, it was for high school athletics ⁓ and you in there as a, one of the many keynote speakers of the week. So, ⁓ and, and then, I know this about Eric Boles. If you learn nothing else in the next several minutes together on the podcast is if I text him, I need you to pray for me. Then I I'm done. I know that it's going to happen and I appreciate that friendship we've developed.

ERIC BOLES: Yeah, yeah, I do too, my brother. I do as well.

Greg Scott: You grew up in the Washington area and I'm fascinated to let our listeners in on that a little bit. Talk a little bit about not just your faith background and how you grew up. You know, we get a lot of, I grew up in the church stories, right? ⁓ But you grew up in a pastor's home and did that kind of start to shape what became later your faith?

ERIC BOLES: Well, to be fully transparent to all, my relationship with, I didn't become a Jesus guy until 2020, I mean, excuse me, timeframe, 1993. So that kind of ages me for people to hear, but I was 23 years old in my first year in the NFL, no, going into my second year in the NFL when I said yes to Jesus, when I became a Christian. So I grew up in a Christian home. My father was a pastor.

Greg Scott: Right.

ERIC BOLES: African American pastor, very influential in the state of Washington. And so the reason I mentioned African American, the reason I mentioned influential is because sometimes the role at that time of a church that was predominantly African American was more than just, this is where we go to worship. ⁓ My father was very in the community, very involved in ⁓ all kinds of issues impacted.

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ERIC BOLES: both local, state, and national politics. And so that was kind of environment I grew up in. I may have mentioned before, just for context, it's kind of environment where you come home one day ⁓ your living room, ⁓ Jackson sitting there or something. So that was kind of my ⁓ growing up. But my ⁓ walk the Lord didn't start then. To be honest,

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ERIC BOLES: ⁓ My heroes and people I was looking up to and all that were all outside of the church, man. It was completely around sports. Like I was a sports fanatic, man. I can't remember. My mother used to say she couldn't find me. We had several services at church per Sunday. And I went out six, seven, eight years old and I would sneak out of the church. And if you wanted to find me, I was always across the street. Brother Worthy's house, who ⁓ wife, you know how these situations work great, his wife was at church every day. So he felt she went to church enough for both of them. ⁓ ⁓ had no time for it. So he always had the door open for me. And if my mom went to find me and where's Eric and people all over the church looking for the pastor's son.

Greg Scott: Yeah.

ERIC BOLES: ⁓ he's across the street from Brother Worthy watching the football game, the basketball game, watching golf, NASCAR. It did not matter, man. Everything sports. That was me. And I stayed that way all the way through, you know, actually all the way through college. that so my my my I was influenced by the church. I was influenced, ⁓ you know, just culturally or whatever. But my true understanding of the value of it or the significance of it. And that didn't come till later.

Greg Scott: I do remember you mentioning almost just like an afterthought of, yeah, I would come home and Pastor Jakes or ⁓ Reverend be in the living room with my dad. And I thought you skipped over that. That's not a minor. ⁓ And ⁓ even your faith story doesn't develop until you're an adult, a young adult, I can't imagine the foundation. And that's what we've talked about with a couple of other guests on our podcast is... You still don't see what the foundation that the Lord is allowing to be laid that you can build on later through those connections. Even though you weren't cashing them in, you were hanging out. I love how he's still brother worthy even though he's not in the church house. But even though you're hanging out across the road, that foundation is being laid for you.

ERIC BOLES: Yeah, you just asked Greg, go too. I was a keynote speaker for one of the largest associates in Washington, D.C. again, or recently, all the surgeons who deal with sports injuries, you know, from all over the country. And. After I finished, remember the board chair having a conversation with me he goes, it's amazing that you can speak and present and not use any notes. He was like, I mean, he was just going on and on over about it. He goes, you never went to, he says, you never went to Toastmasters? Did you ever go to school for it? Did you study public speaking? I was like, never in my life, not one time. I haven't sat down and did anything. And he goes, So, man, how'd you get there? I said, because my experiences started, as Malcolm Gladwell called it, the 10,000 hour rule. When you grow up in our church, the church I went to, very large church as well, they put little kids up front right from the beginning. So I've been up in front of audiences and groups since I can remember. And not only that, in our church, feedback happens in the moment. So if you're good, you don't got to read the crowd. They're going to tell you exactly what's happening. If you're on board, they're like, come on. Yeah. If you're off there like, ⁓ make it right. Make it right. Fix it. Fix it. Fix it. ⁓ It wasn't until that moment that it connected to what you just got through saying in terms of the foundation that's getting placed inside you.

Greg Scott: immediate. You don't have to read the crowd. ⁓ I love it.

ERIC BOLES: even when you haven't publicly acknowledged or, you know, But ⁓ you know, the scripture is true. I mean, you know, if you keep putting it in them, they'll come back around. And I'm definitely one of those stories, you know.

Greg Scott: Well, you've mentioned your, your experience in the NFL. You grew up playing all sports, but you go to central Washington for football where, you know, all NFL players come through, but you're obviously, put together such a career ⁓ CWU that it gets attention ⁓ and drafted into the NFL. So what's the first, was it at central Washington in college, or was it your first training camp with the jets where you have that first eye opening ⁓ of. Oh, everybody's good moment. You know, we all had that as athletes when you get to a point you think you're pretty good until you get in a room where everybody's good.

ERIC BOLES: Yeah. Actually, for me, it wasn't it wasn't at Central and it wasn't in the NFL. It was in between. So when I went to Central, it was an NAI school, bro. It's NCAA Division two. But when I went there, it was NAIA and it wasn't even NAIA Division one. It was NAIA Division two at the time. So, you know, getting there, I'm so grateful for that experience. You know, our most successful athlete who's come out of Central Washington is my best friend who came out a few years later, John Kitna and he spent 17 years in the NFL. So we're the two guys who came out at. But I still remember it was at the NFL Combine that I realized this is different because at the NFL Combine, they brought together all the top receivers at every position. And I was very grateful to be invited there. And I knew being invited there must mean I'm good. And then I got there. And I realized there's levels to this and I haven't even got to training camp yet. Then I was able to get, I got drafted to New York Jets 11th round though, know, different world today, right? They don't even have, you know, it cuts off a lot. Yeah, I think there's seven, six or seven.

Greg Scott: Yeah, that's right. There's seven now, right? Yeah. Unless they've shaved off, know, baseball shave there's down a few years ago. know that NFL was seven.

ERIC BOLES: Yeah, I think it felt was seven. I think it might be six now. I'm not sure, but I knew it wasn't 12. I was feeling good. I was like, hey, man, I got drafted into 11th round. Let's go. Look, signing bonus. My signing bonus was I think $11,000. And you couldn't tell me I wasn't rich until I realized I was rich.

Greg Scott: Yeah, same here. 111, that's right. You couldn't have told me nothing.

ERIC BOLES: You couldn't tell me nothing until I got it and realized taxes are real.

Greg Scott: go through the first year of the Jets and you've already alluded to this as well. But I love you shared with me your faith story of actually getting it. The irony of it is you got invited to go with a faith group of athletes in action, I believe, and talk about that a little bit because I love this story.

ERIC BOLES: Yeah, so going into, just to give some context to it, every training camp, especially for the young rookies, ⁓ it's how many players grew up in church environments, right? Or who, around the church, in the church, whatever the case may be. But you know, we're now getting to the league, you're trying to live ⁓ your life, you know, and think about our age at the time when we're in New York. But the one thing that is consistent is once training camp gets serious and now you know cuts are going to happen. Bible study is packed. Everybody's going to Bible study, because everybody wants to make the team, right? And it was during that time where you get to know the chaplain of the team, and you have all the guys. Well, I'm very familiar with everything, and we all know our scriptures, and we know all this stuff. But it was the first time in my experience where I've heard, I'm hearing, because I didn't grow up. in fellowship of Christian athletes. I didn't grow up in athletes in action. I didn't grow up in those environments. And before I said yes to Jesus, I want to give some context to this. I grew up in our church, you know, it was the Lord and everything else was secondary. And there's no problem with that until you don't really, it's hard to contextualize that to a 17, 18 year old young man who loves this sport. And you're telling me that sport's not important, walking with the Lord is more important. It wasn't until I got to the league and started to get exposed to Athletes in Action, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, things. I wouldn't say yes to Jesus yet, but I never knew that sport could be ministry, that sport could be the way I show worship to the Lord and honored him. So we go on this, we get invited to go on this ⁓ mission trip, really, that's they consider it, to Los Angeles, California. And we get there and I'm thinking we're gonna have a few comments said at a few schools and then at night we're free. And so at night I was already, I already had two buddies of mine who were in the league already in LA. We knew what clubs we're gonna go out to that night. It was free trip to LA. I say what we need to say at these schools and I'm gonna go about my business. I wasn't thinking it was anything more than that. And to be honest, my view of a Christian man was, and no offense to my father, But you know, when you get to live behind the curtain sometimes, like just keep it real, like behind the curtain, it ain't as holy as people think it is. Right. And so, and I had no energy for that. So I had one thing I didn't struggle with was a sense of authenticity. So I could be pretty judgmental what, if you're going to say this, then do that. But if I'm seeing a comp, you know, compromise, that ain't for me. And so I was like, I can say a few words during the day. We can go out at night.

Greg Scott: That's right. Yeah.

ERIC BOLES: What I didn't know is that the group I was with, that group of athletes in action, was half of the group were NFL athletes and the rest of the group was a ministry in the inner city of LA called Victory Outreach, one of the most powerful outreach that I've ever been exposed to. And so what they did were they connected us with Victory Outreach and we were literally going to do real outreach. So they put us on a flatbed truck that was playing Christian rap, you know, music, driving through neighborhoods. And let me mention the neighborhoods, Jordan Downs, Nickerson ⁓ Gardens, Imperial Courts. Those sound really good from a name standpoint. Bro, that was South Central, right? Bro, that was during Crips Bloods at the height of it. I was like, where are we at?

Greg Scott: No, no.

ERIC BOLES: And so they would pull up, bruh, this Compton, we're middle of Compton, bro. This is, you know, this is, they're making like all those movies, Minister Society, know, Boys in the Hood. That's where all that came from. Like, and that's where we're driving these flatbed trucks. And so they're pulling up, Greg saying, hey, we're gonna get out, we're gonna witness to these brothers, we're gonna hand out these tracks and whatever the case may be.

Greg Scott: Yeah, this is early 90s. There it is, yeah.

ERIC BOLES: Don't be surprised if they reach for their hip or try to wonder, you know, when they ask you where you from or what's up cuz or what up love, whatever it is. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You telling me we just gonna drive up and just go engage with them. And they were like, absolutely. We get to see the Lord work in miraculous ways. So you gotta keep in mind, Grave, I ain't say it, bro. I ain't say it yes to Jesus. I haven't committed my life to it. I am doing this for the benefit of playing a few basketball games, I thought, at these schools, speaking a little bit about Jesus, because I know enough, and then go out with my boys at night. So every time we pull up, me and one other, ⁓ we're the last ones off of the... Because I'm like, yo, we watch guys reach for their waist, Greg, like as if they were going to grab a gun or something, wondering why are these guys just coming up on us? man, there's one thing for dying for your faith, but to die pretending you had faith in the first place doesn't make any sense. Like, I'm not even walking with the Lord. I'm like, I'm about to take one for the Lord, and I don't even know him myself. ⁓ That is, I don't know how to articulate what I just described. It was so clear me at that moment. that walking with the Lord is so different than what I've ever imagined. Because the boldness of who we were with. You gotta realize, man, at the time I'm 23, but so is everybody else. There is nobody old in this group. Like there's some veterans, like my mentor became my mentor and still to this day is Gilbert was with us. And Gilbert, mighty man of God, played for the Chargers, all pro, ⁓ pro bowler, all the stuff that he is. Man, he's jumping off those things as well. I mean, he's just walking up to it and. all these guys who are walking with the Lord. And I'm like, yo man, like, we got training camp coming. You guys are taking a risk. And I never forget it. We get up there and Gil turns around and asked me a direct question after they do it. We go to all these various schools in all these neighborhoods and we're all together debriefing. I never get sitting with Gil and Gil looks at me and he asked me the question at this time, Gray. Like he said, who are you? And I was like, I'm Eric Boles. He said, I didn't ask your name, brother. I said, who are you? I said, well, I'm a wide receiver for the New York Jets. He said, I did not ask your job description either, man. We all play. I said, who are you? And I realized in that moment, man, I had no answer. And so he comes back to me later, and he's like, all right, I'm going come back and ask you again. And when he came back to me later, I kind of reversed it on. I was like, man, but I know who you are, but who are you? He said, man, I ain't my boy. bondservant of Jesus Christ. a, ⁓ I've chosen to be a slave. I had never heard that Greg in my life. Keep in mind, man, like the men I admire most were those guys, right? Like being, I always felt being significant or prominent in the church, not that big a deal to me. Why? Cause I've been around it my whole time, right? And I felt way more political than it did impactful, right? I don't know how else to say it, brother. That was my,

Greg Scott: Right.

ERIC BOLES: growing up, but to watch someone who's attained what I desired in the world's eyes, fame, recognition, attention, and he only wants to talk about who he is in Christ. And I had never seen that level of authenticity and realness before. And it wasn't just him, it was the whole group he were with. I still remember the coaches who were there. I still remember the individual. And then what's crazy is who we're with from Victory Outreach? I still remember Pastor Mark. I I had never seen somebody with tattoos on both arms and had came out of prison and was like, this is who the Lord was for me. realized I ain't never seen that. I've been in church my whole life. but I've never seen like what it ⁓ to find your identity in Christ in the world. Like, and for me, that was the real world. Like not just on the corner, but I'm talking about in business, in football, in the environment, and especially in NFL, where every single vice that you may have can be funded. ⁓ Okay? Where you have all the opportunity to do whatever it is you want and it's supported. Yet all these gentlemen who are rent, like it says in Hebrews, they kept laying aside the weight that so easily besets them, right? I mean, it was, I have no other way of describing it, Greg, except for I needed to see it that authentically. Well, I still remember it. was April 29th, 1993. That was what I saw that day. April 29, 1993 that night, everybody's having these discussions talking about the days that, I mean, the number of people who, and gangsters who were saying yes to Jesus, and in the group saying yes to Jesus, and they were going around asking people, just debriefing, and man, what did you see, what did you see? And they got to me and I was like. I didn't lean anybody to Christ, but I accepted Christ tonight for the first time. And I said, I just told the whole group that. I was like, thank you. Thank you for showing me that this is real. And that day, my whole life changed. That day, my whole life changed, brother.

Greg Scott: Amen. There's a lesson even for you and I right now as we think about the people we care about or the people that God puts in our path and we think the urgency of the gospel is important to us and we try to sell it. We try to put it palatable. We try to make a life with Jesus something that you want when it just needs to be authentic. You've seen, probably in the back of your mind, going, you know guys, I've I've been around church, church ain't this hard. Y'all making it a little hard. And God goes, no, it is hard. know, son of man, and birds have a place to sleep, but the son of man doesn't have a place to his head down. And that may be what he calls you to. But that's what it took for you. the lesson for me listening to your story again is going, it's not my job to sell you on the gospel. But I really just need to tell you what it is, what God's done for me, how He loves me and let the Holy Spirit convince you of it.

ERIC BOLES: Greg, I don't want this missed because you just describe it so well that we can trust God that our stories, our authentic stories are designed for someone, right? It might not be designed for everyone, but it's designed for someone. But when we're not authentic or we're just trying to sell Man, be careful trying to cater everything. ⁓ Man, look, ⁓ it doesn't matter how we're dressed and how we look, man, we're all peasants wondering where the real food is. Like we're all in need just because it looks like we're all. Dress differently man. I don't care where you drown in the middle of the ocean or four feet from the shore brother bottom line is you still drown you need it to be saved and this is the lack of Authenticity and vulnerability and honesty. I think sometimes We get lost up in man where and it and it waters down the message man The bible already says that we overcome by the blood and lamb and the power of our testimony our real testimony And so I'm just so grateful for those experiences in my life because if I didn't have them, I'm telling you, Greg, if I didn't hear that from those guys at that time, those who I admire on both ends of the spectrum, right? Like I can't completely relate to the testimonies of those guys who grew up in the street. But we have one of the young men, and never get, because I want to be in detail. The majority of that Pastor Mark was, he was Hispanic. The group was super diverse, but there was one kid in it, one white kid in it. And I'll never forget, he might have been 15 years old. And it just brings me almost to tears right now. He might have been 15 years old, and he was just prayerful and quiet and everything. Man, come to find out, brother. He walked in the Victory Outreach one day, just walked in on his own. He might have been 12 at the time. I mean, he might have been there three years. And we were like, wait, what happened? Come to find out, man, this little guy, he was a child prostitute. Man, what? And he walked in there, them brothers with tattoos and strong and angry, the love of Jesus, the power of Holy Spirit changed his life. Completely changed it. I got to tell you, Greg, man, that was the range of the spectrum, bro. You got...

Greg Scott: Yep.

ERIC BOLES: professional athletes you got, people who had the most damaging background you can imagine. And what was the common trick? We all needed Jesus. We all needed Jesus, Bro.

Greg Scott: I've always heard it's like you take all of the shell off and it's one starving man telling another starving man where I found some food.

ERIC BOLES: Come on. Boom. Boom. There it is.

Greg Scott: and not try to complicate that. I love it because there's so many of us that go through assuming, I've got a faith background, I grew up in the church, I grew up in a pastor's home, whatever, but now I've got a life to live and it's there and I'm sure one day and you know we do all of these worldly things and you know we think Satan wants us to do evil things, he just doesn't want us to do godly things and

ERIC BOLES: That's it.

Greg Scott: I'm so thankful just because of who I know that you are now and the influence that you have. I'm so thankful for that mission trip to Los Angeles for your life ⁓ for Pastor Mark and everybody that was in that group. ⁓ now, moving ⁓ a little bit, I said earlier you're an encourager. You are a speaker. You go before companies ⁓ corporations and groups and really anyone that the Lord gives you an assignment to do. and you're also on staff as a teaching pastor at your church. So talk a little bit about where the Lord has you serving now in those two roles.

ERIC BOLES: the best way to describe it is ⁓ I'm very grateful to Lord to allow me to live in both places. So it's not a, in my world, it's not an either or. Now, in my, I like to consider from a business standpoint, I am an executive performance strategist. And I know it sounds like ⁓ a big fancy description, but ⁓ I, have the opportunity to have all the world keynoting. I'm grateful for that. But I say many times, that's 20, 30 % of my work. It's probably 80 % of what's marketed. It's 80 % of what's known. But it's only about 20, 30 % of my work. And the reason I enjoy keynoting, it gives me a chance to share with a large audience. And it's great. But I get to talk about what I actually get to do specifically when I'm working with leaders. is what I enjoy the most. And I know part of my assignment, part of my purpose, part of my calling is to coach, train, and inspire leaders in unleashing their potential and the potential of those around them. And when I talk about unleashing potential, I'm talking about turning or extracting performance from that potential. And what's so cool about this is watching leaders completely change the way they view leadership. Because the way you bring out potential isn't just on numbers or scoreboards. It's can you raise the level of identity, strength from the very people you lead. Now, in a corporate environment, in these environments, I am not running around being able to preach. I'm not preaching the gospel. I'm not doing that. I'm doing my best to live it. I'm living the gospel in those spots because that's not, they didn't ask me to come in and preach, but the principles of servant leadership, the principles of what we know, walking with Jesus, the principles of challenging, but also growing in perspective and change. is so powerful. And so I'm very grateful for it because then I also get to be teaching pastor in my church. And so probably once a quarter, maybe twice quarter at times, ⁓ get a chance to present at Life Center where attend services, very great church, fantastic church, multiple campuses, I just love our pastor, Pastor Tyler Soley, who's such a great leader and I'm grateful for the opportunity. say all the time, I'm so grateful because I really haven't worked a day in my life since I got into this, right? ⁓ I would also say what's also cool is I've seen how it worked all over the world. So some of the material of my book and some of our training material, it's been translated seven, eight different languages and we've been able to see it happen there as well. And so I'm just so humbled and grateful to see, you know, potential turn into performance working with all these leaders.

Greg Scott: leadership is timeless. The same way that Joshua led, ⁓ Jesus and I'm not trying to ⁓ pretend I do your job, but it really is. I, as a coach, when I was a young head coach and I was a head coach at 24, mistake for me and mistake for whoever decided that, ⁓ although learned a lot in a short amount of time about leadership. But when I coached ⁓

ERIC BOLES: Mm. Come on. ⁓ wow. What?

Greg Scott: The second time around, a few years ago, coached baseball again for three years, I told our kids all the time, guys, can coach. The definition of a coach comes from old English, right? It's an actual carriage. It carries you from one place to another. And so I can do that in a lot of different areas, physically, sometimes mentally, but I can't do that with your desire and your effort. There's no drill for that.

ERIC BOLES: Mm.

Greg Scott: And there's no, there's no approach to that. can get it for a little bit. And I used to use the phrase, I can tick you off and make your effort look different, but it is short-lived and I can't, I can't deal with that. can't coach that and I can't cultivate a program out of that. And that's exactly the same when you're talking about business or the corporate world or coaching or your family. If I don't have an approach where my desire is at a level, my buy-in is at a level.

ERIC BOLES: That's it.

Greg Scott: that it's important to me. I can't go much farther. And that's, you're applying those principles even through what you do every day.

ERIC BOLES: Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, but Greg, the way you just articulated, man, that was so good, bro. Like, I can, I talk about it often about ⁓ inspiring or firing somebody up or getting your guys ready. And I was like, that's fine, but hopefully you have a pretty high floor. And that floor is their own internal drive because you just fired them up for a minute, but that gap, that floor is low. Man, the fall back.

Greg Scott: Mm-hmm.

ERIC BOLES: is gonna be significant. you know, I've been doing some of most inspiring half-time speeches ever, only to go out in the second half and make the same mistakes with greater intensity. Right?

Greg Scott: What's the Marine? I believe it's either the Navy SEALs or the Marine Corps or the Army Rangers that say you don't rise to the, you don't rise to your preparation. You actually fall to your floor. You say your floor has got to be pretty high. You actually fall to the level of your preparation. So when things get hard, what's the worst of me? And the worst of me needs to be pretty good for me to be successful.

ERIC BOLES: Level of integration. Yes. Ooh, I love what you just said, the worst of me, because that is it. You just describe it so well, leaders who say, I got really high expectations. I like, I hope that's supported by really good preparation. Like, having high expectations without the work, that's just, you're setting yourself up for frustration. That's all you're doing. I love that, Greg, man. That's good, brother.

Greg Scott: Yeah. It's like that kid, you know, when you grew up, there's always two or three kids that we grew up with. And I've been in education for 25 years. ⁓ that I ain't scared of nobody. I'm not scared of anybody. I'll fight anybody. Well, you can be brave the whole time and still lose, but you, you can be the most courageous got my butt kicked guy in history. And you still got your butt kicked.

ERIC BOLES: Unfortunately, not only have I seen that, but I had the wisdom to be scared. had a buddy who wasn't, and I have never seen somebody get jabbed so many times in the face. All that happened was he just got angrier and just went forward.

Greg Scott: You Yeah. He just wasn't that, but he wasn't scared. As a young guy, I wish that I was as courageous as some of those people, but as an older guy, I'm thankful for discernment man, how are, take that segue that into family life. How does call us husbands? and call us as dads to lead in our home and how have you seen both successful and not so successful examples of that even in your own journey?

ERIC BOLES: Yeah, so when you talk about successful and not successful, I say this and I say it sincerely, hopefully the people listening can understand what I mean, but I will tell you, I'm probably, I've been a much better father than I've been a husband. There is a dynamic when my girls were born, I'm a girl dad and I love my babies. ⁓ Yet there's a dynamic to it that's so unconditional, so up to my patience level. I learned really early on from a mentor of mine, ⁓ he said it this way, said, Eric, when it comes to raising daughters, he said self-esteem first, self-discipline second. He says it's always important for your girls. to live from love, not for it. And so the way their daddy loves them, they're always, it's almost, I get the function from a place of love versus fighting for it. I tell this to coaches who coach, know, girls sports. And I'm strong about this, that listen man, you can drive them, but always make sure they know ⁓ they not, fighting for your approval. They're not fighting for you. It's wired differently. And so ⁓ my mentors, in terms of the influence they've had on me as a coach, but also in my executive coaching, the number of female executives I work with, and I work with a lot of them, it is amazing the difference between they think about and what their counterparts, ⁓ male executives think about. It doesn't mean they don't care about similar things. They're just not always in the same order. ⁓ And so one of the things that I've worked really hard to do with my daughters, is to make sure the one thing they never have to question is if daddy is for me. They have to know that daddy will not avoid you. There's nothing you can do where it's gonna cause me to pull my love from you. Like I'm not gonna do that. If anything, I want the air to decide that you actually take it for granted On the flip side, I know for young men, one of my greatest desires growing up and still with the men in my life right now, man, I yearn to earn the respect from those I respect. It's just different. there's a part of me, I just want them to be proud of me. I want them to respect me. I want that. And so the work I'm willing to put in and the stuff I'm willing to do, it's just different. When my daughters function from it already existing, they don't get complacent. Most times men... Like, you don't gotta earn it. must not be worth it. It must not be worth it.

Greg Scott: Yeah, not worth it. Must not be worth it.

ERIC BOLES: next piece is when I talk about my role as a husband, when I say I've been a better father than I've been a husband. Doesn't mean I've been a bad husband. It just means what my potential is and the level I've performed at don't match my potential. I've now gotten really sick. My wife and I have been married over 30 years. and we're about to reach year 31. And I'm so grateful and I'm very way up. I mean, no ifs, ands, and buts about it. Yet the number of times I've grown far too comfortable. There's a principle I like to talk about often or a fallacy, let me say it way. I'll be called It's a fallacy and the fallacy is this, that we believe, we confuse familiarity with actual understanding. Because the more familiar with you, I just by default assume I understand you that much. ⁓ what I've noticed in me is, man, my wife has grown and changed ⁓ this time. She's not the same, like how she sees the world. ⁓ I like to function as... as if I'm so familiar with her that I answer the questions before she even do it. I don't really listen. I'm not really hearing her. I'm not seeing her perspective. I don't embrace. I don't study that. I don't lean in. I don't listen. As the scripture says, I'm very rarely in my slow to speak, quick to listen, slow to anger. I'm always quick to speak, slow to listen, quick to anger, right? And my anger is usually thinking I'm not being understood when I am not actually listening to her. Probably my biggest challenges, man, there are stuff I've been upset about or upset with her about only to get later on listen a little more. And it's like the driver of, it's always so much beyond and deeper than where I was living. I mean, it's so, I mean, it just And I realize it's just, man, the opportunity for me to be selfish is so easy, my brother. That's where I've had to really grow because the things that matter most to her are usually the areas that are a little uncomfortable for me, don't come natural. There's not always a lot of applause on the end of it. requires, ⁓ just like with Christ, ⁓ the Bible says, ⁓ are to love our wives like Christ loved the church. It requires me to lay my life down a little bit. There's a price to be paid. Biblical love is always sacrificial,

Greg Scott: Yep.

ERIC BOLES: So when people ask me, you know, we have 30 years, 31 years, man, what's the keys? I'm like, man, there ain't no key. There's a combination, man. There's several different things, right? Like it's an ongoing pursuit, but I know this much. The more I lay my life down to the cross, the more I live John 330, you know, I must decrease for him to increase. The more I do that,

Greg Scott: That's right. Mm-hmm. Yes.

ERIC BOLES: brother, the easier it is for me to serve my wife.

Greg Scott: and serve as a dad and serve as an encourager and serve as a pastor. It's we get things so out of order and it's no surprise we do the same things. You know I'm not a gifted athlete. I'm a I was a I was a real true NAIA athlete. That was my ceiling and and when but if I found myself in a situation where I thought I was in good shape then my work ethic went down a little.

ERIC BOLES: Come on. Come on.

Greg Scott: If I thought I could get you out, then I didn't focus as much. I didn't try to scheme as much. didn't, who am I playing this week? Okay, no big deal. but if it's important to us, then we don't get it out of order that we're leading the foundation first. That's really good stuff. And you started with talking about how your daughters just kind of got your love unconditionally and

ERIC BOLES: Mm.

Greg Scott: I remember you and I talking that you got that rattled a little bit a few years ago when your daughter had a health journey that kind of made you go back to, okay Lord, maybe I put her in front of you too and I need to redirect that. Talk about how that went.

ERIC BOLES: Yeah, so my youngest baby girl, so my two girls are Taylor and Madison. Taylor's my 29 year old, Madison's 25. And man, my youngest Madison, we discovered when she was like 13 or 14, we found out she had lupus, which is an autoimmune disease. Yet she was able to function with it. She was a crazy athlete, man. I'm talking about like quick twitch, like no one's business, man. you know, she loved basketball, she loved track, and then she started playing volleyball. And because of the lupus, she focused highly on volleyball because it was so much. stop and start, but didn't require the running or the banging that can sometimes impact her joints. So anyhow, she's played well enough and continued to grow where, you know, she got the, you know, highly recruited for division one athlete and of all the schools from pack 12 to mountain west to the big, to all that she chose to go to Colorado State University, which was, is a great volleyball school, great environment. ⁓ so she goes there and she's doing fine. ⁓

Greg Scott: Mm-hmm.

ERIC BOLES: between her freshman and sophomore years, she started having some health challenges and we're trying to figure out what's wrong and no one can figure it out. And then through our sophomore years, she starts, and then COVID hits obviously, but going through it, now she started struggling with anemia, right? So she was having problems with her, her iron levels would be low and she became anemic. She was losing weight. We couldn't figure out what was wrong. And understand Greg, you know, my clients are, you know, Mayo Clinic, Stanford, ⁓ not we don't have access or for it to figure out, but no one figure out exactly what was wrong. And then finally we find out on Good Friday, ⁓ after they do another biopsy and something else, found out that my baby had cancer. And so was happening was the results of that. And so at the time ⁓ we found out my baby girl had ⁓ a Hoskins lymphoma. cancer was very aggressive. And so they said that we had to, after going through it, they said we had to start the treatment right away. And we did all that. But here's what was so hard during that time. Brother, I almost couldn't function. Like I was tormented so bad on so many levels and it wasn't like, ⁓ I need to be strong and pray and everything. No, I'm telling you, man. Like I questioned everything and for fathers out there listening or parents out there listening, listening parent, you you start asking questions such as did the sins of the father go down? I mean, you rather the, what did I do? The games that the enemy will play with us when our kids are going through a change or going through a real difficulty and break, you know, this brother, it's like we go through all these. And so you're in the, you're in this, this up and down spiral. You, you feel okay. And then you donate and

Greg Scott: What did I do? did I do? Yep. ⁓ yeah.

ERIC BOLES: Anytime my phone rings and it's Madison, I mean, I'm like anxious every time. mean, all the scripture that says, says, don't worry about anything. Don't be anxious for anything. But my prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. Then the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will come upon your heart. You can see, I know it by heart, right? Like, but to practice it in the moment, what? And so finally, we go through the whole process. Madison has to go through chemotherapy.

Greg Scott: No, yeah.

ERIC BOLES: ⁓ She's no longer playing volleyball. All the stuff that was going along with it. We just want her healthy, but she was still in schools. All the stuff that goes along with that. ⁓ And ⁓ the beautiful thing is cancer gave her something to ⁓ put her focus on ⁓ that, you ⁓ if think the blessing that comes out of it, you know, got so locked in. she's always a strong walk with the Lord, much stronger than mine. So, you know, once she figured out what it was, she was like, hey, ⁓ by his stripes, I am healed. And she stood on that promise, ⁓ not on positive thinking on his promises. ⁓ One of the things that hit though was once she did get healed and for those in the audience, she is cancer free now and healthy and everything. ⁓ But now once that was conquered, it's also been a challenge of, what does my life like now? Like not playing volleyball, not doing this, ⁓ conquer this, you know, what does life look like after?

Greg Scott: Yeah.

ERIC BOLES: Greg, I've already told you, but one of the things that got us through for Sammy and I and our faith friends are at, but Greg, me and you talk about like your own story, like those who had pain. and actually turned around and invested their pain for our gain. So people's willingness to share their painful testimonies and their experiences and pour so much into me and my wife and Cindy in terms of the best way that we can encourage Madison and walk Madison and help Madison. no words and I had no clue like the stuff your family has been through and the things you've got you and your wife Greg and your family and you turn around and invested that in me. Others I got some friends who their story doesn't end like Madison's story where she's still here with us and everything and they would call checking on us and making sure we're okay and also making sure Cymye and I stayed like this because brother it was a stress that we had never experienced before.

Greg Scott: Right.

ERIC BOLES: I would, I can't say I was always there. for sending my wife well during that time

Greg Scott: that there is a more... debilitating feeling than as a and I don't know what a mom feels like so I'll say as a parent but as a dad to not be able to take care of something for your child and when they're going through a health or sickness you know our daughter went through some of those things you mentioned but you look and you provide and you run into any doctor anytime that thinks they can help and you'll call somebody and you'll pull every string in favor that you have and

ERIC BOLES: Yeah. Hmm.

Greg Scott: At the end of the day, you still put your head down going, what else? I can't, I can't do this. can, I can, I can put air in their tires. can, I can do a lot of things. And, ⁓ and it really, for me, and sounds like for you, it's where the Lord said, come on a little closer, use this time and trust. Because I had a plan before you even thought about it.

ERIC BOLES: And Greg, what you just said as a father, I can't speak for him, there's just some part that's like, really, we supposed to protect them. Like we supposed to keep these things from them. I mean, at times I would pray to the Lord and say, why don't just give it to me? Just give it to me. You know, not just give it to me.

Greg Scott: Yeah.

ERIC BOLES: But I will say this, ⁓ there is a reliance on the Lord. There's a depth a growth. Like my father would always say before he passed away, He would say often, says, son, don't waste pain. He would say that all the time. He would remind me, son, don't waste pain. And I know the losses that he experienced as a father and growing up, so different, right? Like than I've had to experience. all things work together for the good of those who call it according to its purpose. And he used to say all the time, says, son, just don't stop that scripture at the word good. keep going all the way to purpose. But great, tell you, brother, my feeling of being like, I hope this blesses somebody out there. The number of times I felt I was the, The root cause. I can't explain it man, was, but I actually felt. that maybe it's because of my lack of integrity. Not living above board or proclaiming something on the outside and not practicing on the outside. Bruh, I wanna tell you the way the enemy beat me down, in my head, in my heart, and I couldn't get past it. It was so hard. And to have... brothers in my life and brothers that's the only way I can stir up like men of God who came around and held me up. First of all, help me understand how ridiculously arrogant that statement is in the first place. You know what I'm saying? even assume that you can, you're the co- bruh, it's tough when you're in those bitches and someone looks at you in the face in the middle of that.

Greg Scott: Wow. Yep. Now who are you?

ERIC BOLES: and I'm in my tears and I'm in my self-pity to no levels. And I have men in my life look me in bed and face and said, man, I need you to get up off the ground and get out of your pity party. This is bigger than you. That it was, ⁓ no one will say, brother, you want us to feel sorry when you. ⁓ are the child of the most high God, when who do you have on your side? But you have a better perspective of just who you are got a perception problem. You think is ⁓ problem of circumstance. No, you got a perspective problem. You got a perception problem. ⁓ This is your problem. And I'm so grateful for the men in my life. I'm so grateful for that level of honesty and transparency. it's God's word to Joshua when they lost the battle of Ai, right? And he's crying before the Lord. And the Lord said, hey, get up. Get off your face, right? Right? And for me, the sin in the camp wasn't because of some action I was taking. The sin in my camp.

Greg Scott: Get up.

ERIC BOLES: know, sin means missing a mark. I was off in my perspective. I needed to completely surrender and submit to the God of the universe, bro. Like, he loves me, man. He loves me. He loves my family. He loves everything. And brother, I wouldn't have known how much he loves me. until I went through everything I was doing. Because bro, I will tell you for me, I treated God very similar to my natural relationship with my father on this planet. And that was, I had to earn it. I had to perform well, he'd be proud of me. If he didn't say anything, he must not be. And I didn't realize how rooted that was in me. And so when things were going like that, brother, my default was, I'm messing up again.

Greg Scott: And I'm going to take you back and draw a line for you that I don't know that maybe you've never drawn, but you're sitting in that moment. You're thinking. I'm the root cause. This is on me is not different than the question you were asked on the flatbed truck of who are you? And when your answer to that was not.

ERIC BOLES: Oof.

Greg Scott: that I'm still a bond servant and a servant and a child and an heir to a salvation and an inheritance to the Almighty God of the universe. Anything other than that is the wrong answer to who you are.

ERIC BOLES: Greg brother, that's it. That's it right there, That's it right.

Greg Scott: And always thankful when God shines a light on that for us, even in the pain, even in a difficult season of your life that you've come through. all know is that when we're out of one season of difficulty, there's another one down the road somewhere. I don't know where it's coming or how far down the road it is, ⁓ but I that I survive it better ⁓ than did the last one. and learn from my mistakes. You know, if I take on a tough opponent as a coach or a player, as a competitor, I may not beat you next time, but I'm going to make you earn it more than you did last time. And if the enemy beat me one way this time, he's going to have to figure out a different way to do it because I'm going to be prepared for that attack the second time around. And I think that's what a challenge.

ERIC BOLES: What a challenge, right? But line upon line, precept upon precept, brother, it's just a continual growth. I am so grateful to what you just said because I have to, no matter what season you go through, what level you grow in, you keep coming back to that same answer to the question, which is identity. Like, who am I? Every single time, every transition, it's deep.

Greg Scott: That's right.

ERIC BOLES: keeps coming back to the same question. After that question around football or whatever that was, I just didn't know that same question was gonna come back in that environment, like in that moment. Who am I right now?

Greg Scott: all of our guests, as we wind down, all of our guests go through a 315 challenge. Remember 315 voices after 1 Peter 3.15? The 315 challenge is a little more fun than that. So the three is, I want you to give our listeners the three books outside of the Word of God, three books that have impacted you the most.

ERIC BOLES: First one, I would say is The Leadership Challenge by Kuz and Posner. ⁓ Phenomenal book, okay, by Kuz and Posner. It was the first book I ever read where I started to understand just how powerful everyone's own story is. And it was the first book I read where being inspiring, encouraging, authentic, all this stuff, ⁓ they measured impact of it. And so, ⁓ It was a game changer for me. The other book that had a huge influence on me was one my father gave to me when he gave me, when we really started connecting. It was Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. It was the first time that I realized being interested in people versus worried about being interesting in people makes a big difference. The kind of impact. It really changed the way. I looked at how to get, now the book that probably had the most significant change in the way I, in my philosophy in terms of how I look at the world, in terms of decision making, everything that it was the 80-20, the 80-20 rule by Richard Koch, that the reality that 20 % of what I do from a proportion standpoint, it creates 80 % of the impact. 80 % of the results in my life. It just means from a proportional standpoint, we gotta make sure we're not neglecting the 80%, but we can also neglect the 23 % for the benefit of the 80 % when it's the 20 % that produces the biggest return. So how to do that has always been fascinating to me and so.

Greg Scott: Yeah.

ERIC BOLES: that book 80-20. So those are the three books.

Greg Scott: Well, and I've not read that book, but I would even go farther from a coach is if you're in the 80 % and you want to get 80 % of the reps and you better take full advantage of the 20 % you do get.

ERIC BOLES: Boom, Greg, preach, brother, because we, stop begging. That's why we say, are you doing with what's already in your hands? Because man, we say all the time, I can't guarantee you, I can't guarantee you gonna get another chance, but I can guarantee you, you're never gonna get the same chance. So you better take advantage of this one right now. Bro, that is it, so good.

Greg Scott: Stop begging for more. Take advantage of what you have. That's right. So the one in the 315 challenge is who is the one person, most notable, most famous person in your phone that would answer, respond, hit you back.

ERIC BOLES: ⁓ you're ⁓ ⁓ notable, right? it may not still. ⁓

Greg Scott: Recognizable, famous, I don't know, my adjectives probably need to be better, but as soon as you say the name, what would the highest percentage of our audience recognize? Like if you said, okay, well, ⁓ can hit up Michael Jordan, bingo. But so.

ERIC BOLES: I can't hit up Michael Jordan, but I can hit up maybe some people, maybe, you know, maybe a Kellan Winslow or Marcus Allen, you know, from a football standpoint or obviously Gilbert and, you know, feel the great ones there know, some of our current football players who are in the league even right now, because I do the stuff, Yale, you know, ⁓ the guys who were part of the, ⁓ the Seahawks run, ⁓ Pete Carroll. ⁓ So Pete Carroll would be yeah, Pete's a great name that I can throw out there that people would be familiar with.

Greg Scott: Yeah, that's a good one too. Sure. ⁓ The five in 315 challenge is the hardest because it's only five minutes. Who, if you had anyone in history that you could sit down with for only five minutes, whether you know them, didn't know them, heard about them, read about them, maybe they're still alive today, but anyone that's ever lived five minutes, you get to sit down and ⁓ talk with them. would you choose?

ERIC BOLES: You know, here's a tough one, but the one I would choose more than any other one, it would be David. I, bro, I so fascinated by David. Not Joshua, not Joseph, not all the other stuff. ⁓ I mean, David, arc of his life. ⁓ just, mean, brother, day ⁓ he went from unknown killing Goliath, man. And I would love to know like, David, if you could do it again, how would you raise your kids differently? You know, look at the results of this family. as much of a man of God he is, family was a mess, Bro, like a mess. those are the kind of conversations would have David. ⁓

Greg Scott: so people listening to our podcast that have learned a lot about Eric Boles today and are still hanging in there with us. Where can they find you? Where can they see you? ⁓ mentioned books, you mentioned places that they are social media. Where can they run into Eric?

ERIC BOLES: That's a great question. Yes, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram. I've been told I'm on TikTok as well. don't, you know, LinkedIn, I'm very aware of, but Instagram and TikTok, you know, all the things that I do are posted there, but I don't manage those things. But you can find me at Eric Bulls, E-R-I-C-B-O-L-E-S on LinkedIn. You can find me at ⁓

Greg Scott: I've been told.

ERIC BOLES: ericbulls.com or the gamechangersinc.com And so I have been through leadership, around specific areas, around developing talent, ⁓ around the impact ⁓ of technology, around change. ⁓ And so ⁓ those who I believe you will ⁓ the value that you get from it. ⁓ also, ⁓ you are on ⁓ please reach out, connect with me. Love for ⁓ people do that. ⁓ It makes a difference. ⁓

Greg Scott: I'll tell you, just spending time with you always encourages me. I'm thankful for our connection. I'm thankful for just for the friendship and ⁓ for you being the podcast today, Eric.

ERIC BOLES: ⁓ it was my honor, man. Just be with my brother, man. I appreciate you, Greg. From the minute we connected, man, I was like, man, I got a brother already,